Comments on: What is Violence?/2012/12/18/what-is-violence/Making Lives More WonderfulFri, 09 Jun 2023 16:08:50 +0000hourly1http://wordpress.com/By: flowchainsensei/2012/12/18/what-is-violence/#comment-17407Thu, 21 Dec 2017 05:58:34 +0000/?p=2812#comment-17407In reply to bborghi.

I recall (poorly) that it was a quote found on the internet. i’ve been looking for the source, as I guess you have, but have been unable to find it.

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By: bborghi/2012/12/18/what-is-violence/#comment-17390Tue, 19 Dec 2017 20:50:15 +0000/?p=2812#comment-17390Could you please precise from what text Eric Mosley’s come ?

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By: Codes of Conduct | HiveMindNetwork.com/2012/12/18/what-is-violence/#comment-13365Wed, 08 Jul 2015 07:35:17 +0000/?p=2812#comment-13365[…] a proponent of nonviolence, I see a lot of violence being employed in the hope of reducing the frequency and severity of interpersonal violence at e.g. […]

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By: Ralf Westphal/2012/12/18/what-is-violence/#comment-3832Thu, 20 Dec 2012 10:24:04 +0000/?p=2812#comment-3832To me violence is whatever contradicts Heinz von Foerster´s Ethical Imperative: “Act always so as to increase the number of choices.”, http://www.cybsoc.org/heinz.htm.

Violence always limits/diminishes the number of choices of some individual – because there is no consent.

That way violence also does not need to be intentional – although we mostly attribute to it at least indirect intentionality through negligence, I´d say.

A tree blown down by a storm killing a person usually is not viewed as violent. There is neither intention not negligence at work, just fate. (This view changes, however, once nature/the universe is populated with all sorts of “entities” possessing their own will power, from nature spirits to god.)

What about causing a person pain during some sexual practice or even helping a person in great and terminal pain to die, when she is begging for it? I´d say these are not acts of violence, because the receiving persons are asking for something. And because they are asking they are responsibly dealing with their choices. Maybe they´re feeling them to increase if they get what they´re asking for? Who would want to judge for them – assuming them to be sane.

Bottom line: Violence is contracting – love on the other hand is expanding.

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By: Tom Graves/2012/12/18/what-is-violence/#comment-3765Tue, 18 Dec 2012 20:59:13 +0000/?p=2812#comment-3765Bob, I’ve long used two flat definitions here: power-over (aka violence) as “any attempt, in any form, to prop Self up by putting Other down”; and power-under (aka abuse) as “any attempt to offload responsibility onto the Other without their engagement and consent”.

(Those are the ‘win/lose’ versions: there are also somewhat-less-common yet almost equally dysfunctional ‘lose/win’ versions, respectively “any attempt to prop Other up by putting Self down” and “any attempt to take on responsibility from Other without engagement or consent”.)

Note that ‘Other’ can also be Self-treated-as-Other – such as in procrastination (offload responsibility onto future Self) or self-blame (propping present Self up by putting past Other down and/or offloading responsibility to past Self).

More detail in the ‘manifesto’ at http://tetradianbooks.com/2009/06/hss-manifesto/ and in practical workshop form at http://tomgraves.org/d_procedure .

Hope this is useful, and would love to talk with you about this somewhen?

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By: Maz Iqbal/2012/12/18/what-is-violence/#comment-3763Tue, 18 Dec 2012 20:14:19 +0000/?p=2812#comment-3763Bob, thank you for sharing this. I have come across NVC and Marchall Rosenberg but not the work of the others.

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